1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb. Re-capped but still too much hum. What can I do?

 Here's the desert island amp for many of us and I think after all these years I'm one to be on that island myself. A really clean 1964 Fender Deluxe Reverb. 

About the amp: Transformers are original, speaker was replaced with a Celestion G12M greenback 30 watt. I'm a fan.... Amp was re-capped well enough. All of the electrolytic caps were top shelf expensive Sprague Atoms. Some of the work wasn't exactly tidy but done well enough.

But, I just didn't like the amount of hum I was still getting. I right away saw some things to improve. First is the bias supply cap:

Whoever re-capped this amp went with the original value. I mean, why wouldn't you. That's what Fender used in 1964 so.... 

Nah. When I worked for Jeff Bober in 1994 he just told me to upgrade it to 100@100v rather than 25@50v. I've been doing it ever since. Better regulation and less hum. I do not detect any change to the sound of the amp and I have well trained ears. And for what it's worth Fender upped it later to 70uf then 100uf cause they could. Caps got a little better. So just do it. If you think that's blasphemy try it anyway and put the old value back in if it freaks you out.

Yup, being dramatic here but I'll share a story. I once had a client who paid me to convert an AB165 Bassman to an AA864. That's no small task. Big job. I made one mistake and one executive decision. He took the amp home and inspected the work under a microscope. The next day I had an irate customer who brought his amp back and he (understandably) expressed his trust had been burnt. So I gladly changed the one pot value that I missed to the correct one. But he was really upset about my little executive choice: using a 100@100v for the bias supply. I explained to him why I did this: with a 25@50v cap it will hum. He didn't believe me one bit and I could tell I was losing his business.

So we gave it a listen, I then replaced it with a 25uf cap.... HUM! And not a teeny tiny difference. It was significant enough that he heard it and looked a bit embarrassed. He asked me if it would make a tonal difference and I said no but if he thinks it does bring it back in a week. I put my little 100uf cap back in, fired it up and he was happy with the quiet. I never saw him again. All is well that ends well!

So here ya go. Use a pretty blue Philips Vishay cap if you will! I like them cause they look nice and European:

But wait! We're not done yet. Amp was much improved but I still wasn't 100% satisfied. This next part involves the signal caps.

If you have been inside as many old Fender and other high quality amps you'll notice even the signal caps have a direction. No they're technically not polarized like an electrolytic cap is, but there is a direction you want them to go in. The have an inside foil and an outside foil. Some old caps like my favorite Ajax blue capacitors you find in Fender amps even tell you which side is the outside foil.

Rule of thumb: always have the outside foil closer to ground. In other words, if one side of the cap is on the 100k plate load resistor and the other is connected to the 1Meg volume pot, outside foil goes on the 100k resistor. Fender almost always got that right! I've only seen a few exceptions. 

Another example is the tone stack. The .1 bass cap goes to a 250k pot and the .047 mid cap goes to a 6.8k resistor. On the other side is the 100k slope resistor then the 100k plate load resistor for a total of 200k. So the bass cap should have the outside foil attached to that slope resistor and the mid cap should be going the opposite direction with the outside foil connected to the 6.8k resistor on the bass cap. Like this:

The phase inverter has three .1 caps. Two are connected to the plates of the 12AT7 while the third is connected to the grid. On the plate load side you have a 100k and an 82k resistor going to each plate. On the other side you have two 220k resistors going to the bias supply. So the outside foil goes to the plates, inside to those 220k resistors. The third cap however is connected to a 1meg resistor on one side and a 47 ohm resistor going right to ground on the other side. So that cap goes in the opposite direction. In this case the previous owner used my least favorite cap, the Sprague 715P. No indication for inside or outside foil so you just read it from left to right. It will look like this:

Notice how the print is going in the opposite direction.........

Here's the dry channel tone stack. I had a spare old polyester orange drop cap that has a stripe on it for outside foil. The mid cap you'll notice reads left to right with the left going to the 6.8k resistor. If you are experienced you'll notice the .047 600v blue Ajax cap for the final stage. Sadly entire channel was orange dropped. But I have a bag of .047 Fender "Death Caps" from the AC balance. I never throw these out when I ground an amp. I save them for classy amps like this one!

One cap backwards will not make all that much of a difference but in this case I counted 5. It adds up. In the hundreds of old Gibson and Fender guitars I've seen over the years, the tone caps are almost always done in this arrangement: outside foil to ground. If the good people at those companies were sticklers for such a detail on the treble bleed cap, there's something to it.

So there you have it. The amp behaves like my own '69 model now. Quiet! Of course it's not possible to eliminate all hum and noise but it is possible to reduce it using these little steps. And the less noise the more music dig?!

Thanks for reading, hope this was helpful and feel free to leave a comment of ask a question below! J

1979 Fender Vibrolux Reverb with tremolo issues. Should I charge more for silver panel amps???

 Here was a mess.......

Fender 2x10" Vibrolux Reverb circa 1979. When it came across my bench it had your typical noise issues and one nasty "bumpity bump" from the tremolo circuit. 

Once I opened it up the first thing I noticed was someone had done a rather half assed job at a black panel conversion (AA964 circuit.) So I figured I may as well complete the job. I changed all the elecrolytic caps first which helped but there was still that tremolo issue. Curiously enough it  was far worse when you turn the reverb up! So I started by eliminating that boost circuit, which takes away a length of wire that is about 8" long traveling from the reverb transformer output to a switch on the back of the volume pot. That made a little bit of difference, less wire generally equals less issues. But that didn't knock out the problem. 

Sometimes this problem is as simple as changing the tremolo tube or the "bug" network (the photo cell neon bulb thing) or just putting a .1 cap across the bug from the 10M resistor to ground. This was already standard factory goodness by then and the amp had that, though they used a .01. I upped it to a .1.....

Next I noticed the 2.7k cathode resistor and the 820 ohm resistor were opposite of where they were on a black panel amp. The 2k7 resistor should be on the left closer to the tremolo tube and the 820 ohm resistor should be on the right closer to the reverb recovery / mixer tube. That made a sizable difference. And it came that way from the factory. I next changed the cathode cap on the 100k resistor on the tremolo tube to a 4.7uf. That helped too.....

But, I like things to be close to perfect. When you turn up the reverb it still did the bump like my parents did in 1978 at the disco in Germany. Cool for the dance floor though they were told to "get a room" by an English fellow.

So what to do next? 

The silver panel amps can be cantankerous. They're just not that well made. The foundation is there: great transformers, hand wired, this one retained the 5u4 tube rectifier, but they just used things like cheaper wire. I've had noisy silver amps that I literally needed to change the wire to get the noise level down.

In this case it became clear to me they just used too much wire! Lead dress is important. 

I mean, look at this jive:

An experienced tech can see the problem. The wires on the tremolo tube are way too long and crossing the wires on the reverb recovery tube! This is factory wiring folks from the CBS days. So I proceeded to shorten the wires and move them away from one another....

That knocked out the problem. I wound up shortening the leads throughout the amp. Overall, it lost about a foot + of wire!

I cannot imagine this isn't a problem that developed with time. The wiring was all factory and the amp has been played hard for the last 40 years. I'm stunned to see that no one attempted to correct this issue before, or maybe the previous owners never used the tremolo circuit. That's plausible. Tremolo isn't for everybody.

So now this amp is ready for proper use. It's got a great sound and I feel good about it going to a new home. When I had my own shop I'd roll my eyes whenever a 70's Fender came in. Most were okay, straightforward, but many were challengers. 

So hopefully this post will help another tech out. Do look at the lead dress. There was a good amount of haste in those days at Fender. I mean look at a 1979 Stratocaster. My first guitar was one and it was terrible. Seriously a sad, heavy, careless piece of corporate lack. This amp is better than that guitar, they were just five dollars away from making both well but chose to cut corners. Fortunately this amp is now terrific cause amps are easier to transform! My poor old guitar will never be good. I didn't feel bad giving that one away years ago!

JB

My personal 1969 Deluxe Reverb

This is my personal Deluxe Reverb. I just bought it from Division Street Guitars in Peekskill NY. Great shop, give them lots of business!

I added the blue jewel on the light bulb. Blue on silver is just right for me.

This post is just about general routine stuff. Amp had the rectifier tube removed and replace with a couple of 1N4007 diodes. Gross...... Well, at least not for me. 

Fortunately the power transformer is intact, easy fix. Clip thise sad diodes out and put the yellow wires back to pins 2 and 8:

Next was just the filter caps. Sad, old and leaking. I didn't keep the sleeves this time cause, well, who cares? It's a silver panel amp! You can see they are leaking badly. Please don't leave stuff like this intact for the sake of "collectibility." Remove and replace.

I like to put two 80uf@450v caps in series with two 220k 2 watt bleeder resistors in the first filtering stage. Keeps me from getting zapped! And if you have an amp that has 500+ volts sitting there before you hit standby, this is safer. 80+80 in series is 40uf....... Perfect for a tube rectifier where you do not want to go over 50uf.

Next is the 470 ohm grid resistors. One was replaced but I just did both. You can also see those .001 capacitors from pin 5 to ground. Gone. Never needed them! The AB763 circuit is just better.

So I'm not the biggest fan of those "Brick drop" capacitors. A bit harsh. I replaced them with a mix of Sozo blue capacitors (lovely!!!) and some old Ajax caps and Sprague Black Beauty caps. 

In the phase inverter I went with a .002 cap feeding it from the preamp. The silver panel amps use .01 which I don't like much and the black panel amps use .001. I like it somewhere in between. You can freely experiment with values there and see what you like. 

This is my first amp with reverb since 1992! New sounds for me. Absolutely beautiful voice. I used all American and European NOS glass. So hopefully the public will get to hear this some day when Covid has passed. And it shall pass like everything else. Let's keep it real and get through these times together. God I miss live music!

Of course, these old Fender amps have a way of getting away from me. So as long as I don't sell it.....

I should add, the late 60's Fender amps with the removable baffles like this one are some of my favorites. They're consistently great sounding. I'm not a fan of the tweaks they did but those are minor and it's a piece of cake to put them back to the black panel glory. The transformers are pretty much the same, this uses a 5AR4 rectifier rather than the 5U4. That's important. The amps made soon after this are very good still, right up until the 1980's. They're all hand wired. But these late 60's amps, you have more fun options. If I wanted to I'd replace the baffle with Baltic Birch. Mojotone makes those ready to install. I've done this for clients and for a couple amps I owned that had cracked baffles. The later ones the baffle is glued in. Bah! Why???!!! 

So do consider one of these if you have fancy champagne taste on, well, a good wine budget. No they ain't beer sadly, but still priced more reasonably than the vaunted black panel amps.....